The EthnoMed Podcast
The official podcast of EthnoMed.org, a website based in the Interpreter Services Department at Harborview Medical Center which serves as a cultural bridge connecting providers and patients with resources for cross-cultural medicine. The podcast features provider interviews, community highlights, and topical episodes related to cross-cultural medicine.
The EthnoMed Podcast
Provider Pulse Ep. 18: Brandon Gim, RN - Finding your Why
What does it really mean to find your why in medicine?
In this episode, registered nurse Brandon Gim joins the EthnoMed Podcast Provider Pulse series to share his nonlinear journey—from growing up in a Korean immigrant family in South King County to finding meaning in community health and mentorship at Harborview.
Brandon reflects on the pressures of expectation, the role of self-doubt, and how authentic mentorship helped him rediscover purpose in care. Together, we explore what it takes to sustain compassion in a system that doesn’t always make space for it—and why discomfort and uncertainty can be signs that you’re growing in the right direction.
For pre-health students, trainees, and anyone considering a career in healthcare, this conversation offers a grounded reminder: purpose isn’t something you stumble upon once—it’s something you build through reflection, vulnerability, and connection.
The Provider Pulse series is part of the EthnoMed Podcast which highlights the human stories in medicine that shape how we learn, teach, and care.
Visit EthnoMed.org for additional resources. Follow us on YouTube and Instagram @EthnoMedUW
Brandon Gim 25_02_05
[00:00:00]
Brandon: I definitely struggled heavily. There's a lot of doubt about like, does it really matter? Or even, even deeper than that my life, does it really matter?
[00:00:10] What's your why? It can be hard to investigate that and a lot of things might arise, but that's gonna give you clarity on why you're doing what you're doing.
And it'll help strengthen your [00:00:20] motivation to do what you need to do, to live your best life.
And I think for me, when I thought about nursing, it was likea pathway to the things that I thought were most [00:00:30] important in healthcare that need to happen in healthcare .
Duncan: Welcome to the EthnoMed podcast. I'm Dr. Duncan Reid, a provider at harborview's [00:00:40] International Medicine Clinic, and Medical Director of EthnoMed.
On today's episode for the Provider Pulse series, we continue to explore the human stories behind healthcare professionals. [00:00:50] Today we hear from Brandon Gim, a registered nurse whose path to medicine wasn't linear, and whose reflections will resonate with anyone wondering what it really means to find your [00:01:00] why.
Brandon grew up in a Korean immigrant family in the South sound navigating high academic expectations,
But along the way, he began asking deeper [00:01:10] questions about purpose, success, and what it means to care.
In this conversation, we talk about the importance of holding space and reflecting the [00:01:20] power of mentorship and how discomfort, rather than certainty, often signals that you're growing in the right direction. Whether you're a pre-health student, a medical trainee, [00:01:30] or simply curious about the human side of medicine.
Brandon's story reminds us that purpose isn't found all at once. It's built slowly through reflection, vulnerability, [00:01:40] and connection.
Brandon: Yeah. Testing, testing,
Duncan: My name's Brandon Gim.
Brandon: I am currently a grant funded [00:01:50] nurse working on process improvement projects here with the Cultural Mediator Program or the community house calls program. This is a program that serves folks [00:02:00] of different, ethnic backgrounds, different cultural backgrounds. We serve nine different languages, and we support patients who have medical and social complexity with navigating [00:02:10] healthcare, kind of like a community health worker.
Some care coordination, cultural mediation. So making sure care is culturally aligned and makes sense for folks. [00:02:20] And sometimes some unique situations like involving end of life or, understanding diagnoses or navigating healthcare system differences, which can be pretty different for folks, around [00:02:30] the world.
And even adjusting to like western, American society. So things like this. Very important stuff, very important program.
Duncan: And I think we'll get into this, but then you're [00:02:40] trained as an RN. Where were you working before?
Brandon: Yeah. previous to this I was working as a bedside nurse in an acute care unit over at UW Montlake and [00:02:50] I was there for about three years.
Duncan: Wow. Okay. I think we'll learn more about how you ended up in this unique position. Can you just start off and just tell me where [00:03:00] you're from?
Brandon: Yeah, so I grew up in the Salish Sea region, Federal Way.
I went to a bunch of different schools growing up because both of my mom and dad [00:03:10] really valued education and tried to put us through the best programs. My parents are, immigrants from Korea and I think they got here like in 96 and they came to California [00:03:20] first and then ended up coming to Washington.
So that's kind of my upbringing here. I've been here my whole life only been to Korea twice actually.
Duncan: So you grew up onthe [00:03:30] southern region of King County.
Brandon: Yeah. bordering Pierce County and King County is kind of where I grew up.
Duncan: Your parents immigrated from Korea a few years before you were born?
Brandon: [00:03:40] Yeah. My dad, he had to do school again 'cause they didn't accept his degree in the US for whatever reason. So he had to do college again, like community college. [00:03:50] And he actually did try to do medical school, but it was challenging because of language and other things
and he ended up studying optometry. And he is [00:04:00] still practicing as an optometrist
Duncan: What did he do back in Korea?
Brandon: His college major was philosophy.
Duncan: So it was really a big change. And then he had to [00:04:10] start from scratch and Yes. Push through. And then how about your mom?
Brandon: She was like a learning institute. director, I guess I haven't asked her too much about this, [00:04:20] but in Korea, that's what she used to do. And then she kind of changed it up for her marriage and then to prioritize taking care of her kids. Me and my sister. [00:04:30] So big changes for her as well.
You said that your parents were prioritizing education a lot, and that was a reason that you were moving. what did that look like growing [00:04:40] up?
We just went to gifted programs, stuff like that. I'm not sure how valuable prioritizing that aspect of education was because education is very broad and very [00:04:50] complex. and there's things that I wish I would've learned while growing up that weren't necessarily prioritized.
Duncan: What kind of things were those that you would've wished that you had learned when you were [00:05:00] younger?
Brandon: I think one thing that immigrants can have problems with is, in my experience, like healthy relationship building, emotional [00:05:10] regulation. like to this day, there's some things that it's, I have difficult time talking to my parents about.
There's like a, a trust that's not there. And then one thing is I feel like their [00:05:20] interest in my education, or even in my development, came from their own paradigm and not necessarily like supporting me to be my best person of who I thought I wanted to be and how I [00:05:30] want to live, but how they thought I should live and how they thought I should be.
And so that can create a disconnect in having authentic conversations when they aren't able to [00:05:40] fully hear you out, because of certain perceptions or paradigms that they're coming from.
Duncan: Well, thanks for sharing that. And I think a lot of people can relate to having [00:05:50] difficult, authentic conversations with their parents.
I think regardless of culture probably. But then you're highlighting this cultural aspect, which is just this whole other layer on [00:06:00] things. When you talk about their educational paradigm. Are there any specific things that stick out to you when you were growing up?
Brandon: I guess like emphasis on [00:06:10] school-based education versus some, experience-based education, and then school as a means to a stable economic [00:06:20] situation So. Of course knowledge is valued by my parents, and myself as well.
But I think maybe certain knowledges [00:06:30] were valued more.
Duncan: how do you recall school? Was it something that was a source of pleasure or fun for you
Brandon: until middle school?
I loved school, I [00:06:40] loved learning. it was very enjoyable. But I think once I felt like when I started to find myself questioning my parents' [00:06:50] direction when it came to my education or my life, or finding gaps in their plan for me, uh, whether like existential or otherwise, [00:07:00] I think it became increasingly challenging to be embodied in their direction for my education.
Yeah.
Duncan: Was there a big rupture that happened [00:07:10] then
Between what they were hoping for you and, and the path that you were seeing for yourself?
Brandon: Yeah, so my dad definitely gave me some history books like Howard [00:07:20] Zinn's, the People's History of the U.S. and when I read that I was like, what I, I really, I don't know.
I questioned a lot of things and I think there was a lack of follow up, like a lack of [00:07:30] holding space and debriefing on like, oh wow, you read some like really traumatic history there. How can we synthesize this knowledge so you can process what you're going [00:07:40] through. There was like a lack of that just like, here, here you go.
Um, this is important. And it was. And then I think also my parents had [00:07:50] really emphasized like intelligence and Oh, you're smart. And um, this is a defining trait for you, but I think especially as you grow older, you find that is [00:08:00] not necessarily a unique defining feature.
Duncan: Like there's , a lot of other brilliant individuals out there. I think it's telling that he gave you that book in particular, right? It was a, [00:08:10] it's a People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn. Yeah. it is kind of a counter narrative of what the history of the US is from the view of the [00:08:20] oppressed people.
Brandon: Yes, exactly. That's what it is. And it's very different than what you learn in school. And you start to question these institutions and how useful, like their [00:08:30] utility, like, dang, how useful is the education for addressing these really major problems? Like, am I just going to go to school for a paycheck and just like, what, why am I doing [00:08:40] this?
And that was a persistent struggle that I had from high school onwards. Like finding out, okay, what is my purpose then why am I [00:08:50] here? What do I need to do? What do I want to do? Um, yeah. And just grappling with that. It took a lot energetically and like psychologically.
Duncan: One [00:09:00] thing that you mentioned was that your dad didn't do follow up after he assigned you this book. Yeah. Do you think he had, a notion of how this would affect you?
Brandon: I don't think so.
And then I think it's also his [00:09:10] own upbringing because he had to seek these on his own. So maybe he was coming from a perspective of like, oh, my parents never gave me valuable information about the world. I would like [00:09:20] to be able to pass what I think is valuable about the world on to you.
And what I'm hearing from you too is that there's kind of a disconnect between what was expected in school my guess is maybe a little bit [00:09:30] more of an insulated protected area of learning and then being assigned these kinds of books where you're really thinking about big picture things, possibly [00:09:40] counter-cultural.
Yeah. There's not always a big picture connection when you're doing academic education. It's not like every single thing isn't connected to, oh yeah, so this is why [00:09:50] this is important to your life.
You know, it's just like, yeah, this is important, so we're gonna do it. and it's hard to stay motivated when you see like, oh, there's really important things going on, and the connection's not [00:10:00] made between what you're learning right now and how this affects the bigger picture.
Duncan: What, what about other kids then?
You came from this unique immigrant background [00:10:10] where you were born in the US where you, both of your parents immigrated. Did you have other classmates that you felt like you related to based on their history?
Brandon: I remember in [00:10:20] middle school hanging out with Vietnamese peers and Hmong peers.
I guess the Asians since that's, that was my racialized [00:10:30] group. And there was like a level of trust and ease that was present when we spent time.
But yeah, I feel like my closest connections growing up were definitely with other [00:10:40] Asians.
I don't remember having many connections with African or black, peers or Hispanic peers. There's [00:10:50] definitely some barriers to connection there, but I, I wish I could have had more cross-cultural friendships when I was younger.
Duncan: You mentioned the church too, and it sounds like it's a [00:11:00] big influence, at least on your childhood.
Brandon: Definitely, yeah. Even my young adulthood.
Duncan: And can you tell me what church that was?
Brandon: It was a, Korean [00:11:10] Seventh Day Adventist church that I grew up in. There were a few people who weren't Korean, surprisingly. There were like maybe one or two, and then there were some like folks with like [00:11:20] mixed heritage who were there but , it was like, if the default of of
school was white American culture. Like the default of the church culture was like [00:11:30] either Korean or Korean American culture, even though there were other cultural ethnic groups.
Duncan: Did you make good friends there in the church?
Brandon: I think I did. 'cause I was there. [00:11:40] When you are with people, often you have relationships. But now, those connections are not that strong today.
Duncan: So that seems like it's a whole topic in and of [00:11:50] itself. Yes. Just leave that.
You go into high school and then it sounds like just because your mind has been broadened by a lot of the assignments that your [00:12:00] father gave you, you're just even questioning the relationship between school and I guess real life,
Brandon: honestly.
Yeah.
Duncan: So then what happened? I [00:12:10] mean, that sounds like a, a tough place to be.
Brandon: It was, yeah. And I honestly did not do great in school, in high school. Yeah, even though I was like in advanced to [00:12:20] mathematics and, I, got by but as far as like my mental wellbeing, my clarity on life direction.
Utilizing [00:12:30] resources in order to take steps towards my goals or even live my fullest life. Definitely struggled heavily. And there was, yeah, [00:12:40] as you said, there was like a lot of doubt. There's a lot of doubt about like, does it really matter? or even, even deeper than that my life, does it really matter?
Duncan: [00:12:50] Sounds like you might've even been depressed.
Brandon: No, I was depressed. I just didn't say that.
Duncan: Yeah. And did you, were you able to have help or support during that [00:13:00] time?
Brandon: I can't say that I didn't. Definitely folks, and honestly, people at my church, they got me through. And so, I'm grateful to them for that. Like shout out Pastor [00:13:10] Robin. Uh, shout out Josh and other like reliable adults in my life who did support me with the tools that they had, and bless them for [00:13:20] that. But I struggled deeply. And I don't think I got some of the critical support I needed on processing some of the feelings I had and then also, like the living situation I was in, like my [00:13:30] parents, they didn't have the best relationship and now they're separated.
Um, yeah, there's a lot to it.
Duncan: Yeah. So it seems like there's a lot going on. And then, but it sounds like there were [00:13:40] some adults that were helpful and gave that structure
Brandon: that was critical, honestly.
Yeah.
Duncan: And then in the space of all of this, how are you even thinking about what you're gonna do [00:13:50] when you grow up?
Were you interested in any fields at that time? What were you thinking?
Brandon: It was choice fatigue, honestly. 'cause there were so many options in so many [00:14:00] ways. I think what would've been helpful to help narrow down some of the possibilities, but in a value-based ways, in a way that, that mattered to me at [00:14:10] the time. So like, that's what I ended up doing for myself. like, what's something that I need from a job? And so I thought like, okay, I need to be working [00:14:20] in a team. I want to be helping people. I don't want to question whether what I'm doing is causing harm. And I need a profession that will develop me as a [00:14:30] person. Those are my criteria.
Duncan: Well, that's really high level stuff already in high school. What about like, basically was there anything that you, that you liked?
Brandon: I guess I [00:14:40] didn't really think about it like that. I didn't really allow myself space to just experientially feel and intuitively grasp, oh, these are things that I'm [00:14:50] good at. And I like. It was, it was really, it was always like high level, okay, what do I need to do to make the world a better place?
What do I need do to survive and have my [00:15:00] existence be meaningful and fruitful?
Duncan: Wow. No, it's really striking to me at that age, right, that you're already processing things that way. So then where did you go from there? So you graduated high school?
Brandon: Yeah, I [00:15:10] graduated high school. I applied to a couple colleges, um, didn't turn out so well and luckily because of my parents financial situation, I was [00:15:20] able to work with my dad at his optometry place. But I was still like thinking about like, okay, so what do I want to do with my future? And I decided on [00:15:30] nursing because of the criteria I mentioned earlier, like, I wanna work with others, you know, don't want to do harm and it seemed like a lower barrier way. 'cause I was feeling, especially with comparison [00:15:40] with my peers and expectations of what success meant at this stage in my life. Just feeling a lot of anxiety and not a lot of confidence in my [00:15:50] self-worth .
And so it's like, okay, nursing is a low barrier way to take a step towards a profession
Duncan: and a profession that you felt [00:16:00] like filled the values that you had enumerated there.
Brandon: Yes. Yes. That was aligned. Yeah.
Duncan: How long did you spend, working with your dad before you ended up [00:16:10] pursuing nursing?
Brandon: I worked with him while I was pursuing nursing, so I worked with him for I think, two years.
which I'm really grateful for and [00:16:20] I was going to community college doing prerequisite courses. I didn't honestly think more about my career and all that while I was in it. I was just getting stuff out and honestly [00:16:30] numbing and honestly spending a lot of times playing video games.
Um, but not necessarily a lot of time like processing my emotions and critically [00:16:40] thinking.
Duncan: I think a lot of what you're saying is a lot of people are going through.
And I think you're mentioning the real stuff and it sounds like, were you [00:16:50] even enjoying any of, community college or was it just another thing to get through?
Brandon: I think the way I was receiving that experience was just another thing to, to get through. my mental [00:17:00] health wasn't that great and I, I got by,and when I was accepted to nursing school at Seattle U and I went there, I actually struggled there [00:17:10] as well during school, even though like, grade wise, I did just fine.
I did great actually no problem but mentally I was still struggling a lot.[00:17:20]
Duncan: Were you excited when you got accepted?
Brandon: I was, I was happy and I felt validated. I felt like Yeah,
Duncan: because you've been working hard towards it.
Brandon: I had [00:17:30] been working towards it, yes.
Duncan: Yeah.
You're making progress.
Brandon: Oh, and also between getting accepted to nursing school and working with my dad, I started working as a nursing [00:17:40] assistant, a CNA, I worked at like a skilled nursing facility.
That's some really hard work. Definitely. That's reality for a lot of [00:17:50] folks. and it didn't, it didn't dissuade me from going into nursing. But I did know that I could not do that kind of work sustainably. And I think for me, when I [00:18:00] thought about nursing, it was not a stepping stone, but a, a pathway to the things that I thought were most important in healthcare that need to happen in Healthcare, [00:18:10] which is like preventative upstream intervention, which led me to the work I'm doing today.
I think the thing enjoyed the most from nursing school was my population health [00:18:20] internship,A lot of people did not have a good experience with that and they didn't like it and it wasn't really helpful for them. But also I think my goals in healthcare, were different from a lot of my peers. ' cause [00:18:30] they knew what they wanted. They're like, okay, I'm gonna go work in the hospital and I know what nurses do and that's, what I want.
But I had had some experience with being in the hospital, I did this [00:18:40] program called COPE Health Scholars, where you get to be a volunteer and you help restock like you do vitals and clean, things like that. But you get exposure, [00:18:50] to folks working in the healthcare profession and also physical access to those spaces.
And I honestly really did not like it. Um, I did not like it, and I knew that that's not [00:19:00] what I wanted to do. and a lot of my peers, they knew that what it was and knew that that's what they wanted,
And I knew, I just knew that that's not what I wanted. And that was a [00:19:10] dilemma that I regularly faced because I knew that's that what my values were for what healthcare needs wasn't what was happening in the hospital.[00:19:20]
Duncan: Can you tell me about that population health internship or,
Brandon: yeah. I worked with Neighborcare.
I worked with the housing and homeless outreach team, [00:19:30] and I was mostly stationed in a permanent supportive housing setting. And so I worked with a preceptor, which shout out Jeremy.
I'm still [00:19:40] friends with him today,
that role also does not have that much structure. And then because of the characteristics of the population, a lot of uncertainty and [00:19:50] unpredictability as well. And if you are someone who like really needs outcomes to be able to like, feel like you're doing a good job. that can be a challenging job [00:20:00] because there's so many factors going into these people's, health outcomes and there's only so much you have control over.
But what I really enjoyed about that [00:20:10] position was the person-centered approach that I felt like was happening there versus like the very prescriptive way of treating people that happened in the [00:20:20] hospital.
We still provided like direct care for folks, wound care was something that happened regularly and we had a lot of [00:20:30] conversations, some I would say, critical conversations between each other. 'cause there was space for that, like with my preceptor and also with the patients that we were working with or the clients we're working with [00:20:40] about their substance use, like their mental health, their health, what they thought of it. and not all of them were feel good conversations. Some of them were like, there was a lot of [00:20:50] discord in the therapeutic relationship, people who were really struggling with whether it's mental health or other personal problems or like frustrations of the system that they were kind of [00:21:00] projecting onto us or people who were like actively going through mental health issues, like schizophrenia and other things, and navigating the complex systems of like, okay, so [00:21:10] what do we do with these situations?
And how do we honor these people? And how do we provide them care in a way that will actually help them. The other piece that I really connected [00:21:20] to was being able to work on our project. So I worked on this trauma informed care module that I was asked to do by our supervisor. Jim, [00:21:30] shout out Jim, but he gave me this project to work on and I enjoyed being able to make something that would be there to [00:21:40] help other staff. it was used as part of the onboarding curriculum. Like, hey, these are fundamental skills that you need to be able to work in this position. And so [00:21:50] I developed like a curriculum for the trauma-informed care modules. Um, and I, I really enjoyed that.
Duncan: So what I'm hearing from you is actually,
this is something that you're doing that has [00:22:00] meaning despite the lack of structure, And it sounds like that high level thinking. Is something that you've been searching for for a while. And then [00:22:10] the mentorship part of that as well, with these two mentors that you had, seemed like this was,
Brandon: that was critical. Yeah. That was critical. I agree. Um, and yeah, [00:22:20] thanks for reflecting that back to me.
I think that was actually, that was like one of the times I actually really enjoyed what I was doing. Um,
Duncan: And it even goes [00:22:30] back to like Howard Zinn's book, right? Because this is the first time you're dealing with this messy reality,
And actually
Brandon: doing something about it.[00:22:40]
Duncan: and doing the stuff that you learned about when you were a young person But it's, this role of mentorship sounds really important as well. Yeah,
Brandon: It was. It, it really was. Uh, it was, [00:22:50] it really was.
Duncan: Can you tell me about what those things are, just for students that are listening to say, you know, what kind of things can you look for from a mentor?
What were the things that really were [00:23:00] important to you?
Brandon: One of the approaches that I appreciated was the check-ins.
Like how am I doing? And then also like the collaboration. So what do you wanna learn? [00:23:10] Uh, like this is what I'm gonna, I have to do. And then where, what's your learning edge? Like, what do you wanna learn from being with me in this [00:23:20] experience?
having some agency over that and the partnership instead of feeling like, oh, you know nothing, I'm gonna teach you everything or, you know nothing and I'm gonna make sure you don't get in the [00:23:30] way.
Being offered like, Hey, you're gonna partner with me today and we're gonna take care of some folks together.
Like yeah, just that different way of approaching it [00:23:40] was extremely helpful for my learning and my growth, like as a person and as a professional.
Duncan: And it sounds like it wasn't something that you were used to. [00:23:50] So it was like a novel kind of approach where it's not as hierarchical and it sounds like it comes from a place of, uh, earnesty where they actually did care [00:24:00] about,
Brandon: You can't really do that if you don't care. I mean, you can, as humans, our BS meters are a real thing and we can feel the energy and the vibe
Duncan: Mm-hmm.[00:24:10]
Brandon: and so like, it's, yeah.
It's hard to receive something from someone who doesn't actually care.
Duncan: Wow.
Brandon: That goes for medical providers too. It's really [00:24:20] hard to work with someone when you don't believe that they care about you. How do I know that you actually are looking out for me?
Duncan: Yeah. And maybe with the young people, that's a [00:24:30] lot of their frustration with the educational system too. Because I think people do have a good sense when someone's invested in them or cares about them. Yes. So maybe the message that you're saying is [00:24:40] that those people are out there, how can you find them?
And you know it when you see it, right?
Brandon: you will know it when you see it and those people are out there. But I would say there's, I [00:24:50] feel like there's a lot of system barriers for the authenticity to arise. 'cause even like people who are already in those roles, there's a lot of things that are preventing them from showing up in that way.
[00:25:00] Like as caring people, as mentors or like, as caring guides. As caring guides. There's a lot of barriers, whether that's like their own personal stresses or [00:25:10] things that they're dealing with, with the system, how academia structures, like relationships between professors or, clinical instructors, versus [00:25:20] students.
There's a lot of barriers there, but I will agree. I do think that there are people who care and they are out there. And I'm also curious to find out how that gap can be bridged.[00:25:30]
Because it's not just receiving. When you give people your care, the person who is giving it, it affects them as well in a positive way.
Duncan: So [00:25:40] you had this really positive experience because of mentorship. Because there was alignment with the way you were seeing the world as well.
Brandon: Yes. [00:25:50] even though there was some differences, of course,
Duncan: Yeah. And you're actually able to tolerate the chaos of this environment, which is quite interesting as well.
Brandon: Yes. And, and you were [00:26:00] saying some of your colleagues wanted something much more prescriptive to do Mm-hmm. So where did you go from there? I'd say the next kind of step came after nursing [00:26:10] school when I made the decision to work in the hospital, because I had originally planned for, okay, let's work with the community. Like, let's work in primary [00:26:20] care. Maybe with Neighborcare. I was offered the position.
But because I had to support my partner and I needed the financial resources, I decided to go with a [00:26:30] inpatient position and that was like my next career step. and then I worked at UW Montlake
It was what I wanted to do. Not like, as a profession, but it was what I wanted [00:26:40] to do for my other life goals, which is also valid.
Duncan: Yeah. And how, how was that
Brandon: my experience in inpatient?
There's [00:26:50] things I liked, but mostly things I couldn't handle. I think one thing I'm, I still have challenges with is the level of responsibility that you feel for folks who are [00:27:00] experiencing a lot of these system gaps or like a lot of things that like, don't go well, as the bedside nurse, you're responsible for like all of that. I mean, you don't have to be responsible for all that, but as the [00:27:10] point person, I felt a weight of responsibility. And that can be very challenging at times. And it was worse during the day shift because there were all these moving parts and all [00:27:20] these moving pieces.
It was very overwhelming. and there's always an opportunity to make a difference, but sometimes it's hard to prioritize on top of the other things that you [00:27:30] like the tasks that you're already prioritizing. So yeah. And then there's certain system things that just aren't built very well for long-term wellness.
For example, mental [00:27:40] health, there's so many times when people are having mental health issues and what all we have is a crisis intervention, to make sure they don't kill themselves. make sure they're not actively, [00:27:50] hallucinating or actively delusional.
But what these people really needed is while they're in the hospital, that's a wonderful opportunity for them to actually receive some mental health support.[00:28:00]
'cause they got so much time and if they don't want to, fine. But I found that when I was able to build trust with patients and I opened the question of [00:28:10] like, Hey, can we talk about your alcohol use, for example, we would go somewhere, but I didn't always have the time to talk about these things, even though these are very necessary. That's just one system. So like [00:28:20] mental health, because we know if you don't have the capacity or the motivation to take care of yourself, you're not gonna be able to. the holistic care piece is just lacking in the, inpatient setting Yes, it's important to [00:28:30] prioritize someone's life, but like, if we wax philosophical with it, like what's valuable in someone's life?
You know, it's not just being alive But there's other pieces that are critical to life that I [00:28:40] just aren't being accounted for.
it sounds like you gravitate towards this holistic view of health and of even like this existential view of people, which I think you [00:28:50] found a home for in this, one course that you had in nursing.
Duncan: But then now you're dealing with all these constraints in inpatient medicine, right. Which is frustration after [00:29:00] frustration, and then howdid this transition happen? to what you're doing now?
I
Brandon: I think while I was inpatient, I needed some things to [00:29:10] sustain and like, definitely the mentorship did not exist. The culture, I did not, I was not vibing with it. it's not just about the racial demographics, but it's also like the culture.
[00:29:20] The culture is very go home culture.
Duncan: So you found this as kind of an outlet or was this a refreshing position that you got?
Brandon: It's, yeah, it in a lot of ways is like [00:29:30] the ideal. It was what I was looking for.
And I think the transition only happened because I actually worked on a project completely on my own time during my inpatient stint I [00:29:40] guess. I had joined our unit practice council. I'm glad that that exists. and be being part of the unit practice council.
You're also asked to join the local [00:29:50] practice council occasionally, which is like a broader body that was focused on acute care nursing in the hospital. And at the meeting I just brought up some concerns I already had about [00:30:00] incompetency in skin assessment for folks who had more melanin because that's not something that's taught in nursing school And then taking care of people who, have more melanin in their skins. Like there's, there's [00:30:10] differences. And, voicing that concern, I was encouraged to look into it. I was like, okay. I feel like some things could shake. And so I did a project where I looked up [00:30:20] what was the current evidence for accurately assessing skin with more pigment, and actually was able to advocate for some changes to be made.
And so some changes in documentation [00:30:30] were made system-wide for like wound documentation.
But I think because of that project, I felt while working with like different folks and seeing that, oh, the [00:30:40] change actually can happen. I felt more emboldened to continue down that route, of like process improvement or like, making changes happen.
I felt like I had learned [00:30:50] what I need to learn from that position. And I was looking for something more aligned.and so I found this position And it hit a lot of the things I was looking for. Something that had a connection to [00:31:00] community. project based work. And I wouldn't have to take a pay cut. I was chosen. and since then, working in this role, it's definitely been [00:31:10] with this challenges like first realized like, wait, even though like they have like a lot of things that I thought were perfect for what I needed in a job, there's a lot of things [00:31:20] that I'm realizing that I need more more than just what I thought.
Um, and actually I struggled while in this position, because I realized, [00:31:30] okay, like a job's not gonna make you happy. Even if you're doing work, that really matters. 'cause I actually, I believe in my work Although sometimes a lack of structure can make me feel [00:31:40] uncertain about what I'm doing.
Duncan: So there was goal alignment or mission alignment with this position, but its own challenge is super unstructured.
No one's been in your position [00:31:50] before.
Brandon: It hasn't but you got to meet a lot of different people in a different culture, I think down here at Harborview I'll say people are pretty open to try to help, [00:32:00] which has been extremely necessary to make things move. I was given a few projects to work on. Like, my main one was the flow sheets documentation [00:32:10] workflow. and so we've been trying to make that happen, like coordinating with the different, folks in epics and clinical informatics and whatnot to make that actually go into production.
there's a lot of bureaucracy type things that are, [00:32:20] some of them are necessary, but everything takes time to move.
Duncan: How, how about big picture? What's next for you?
Brandon: Um, that's also a challenge, I think capacity of building [00:32:30] for upstream or health equity interventions. Because there are people who are willing to do that work, but we need to structure things in a way that people can do that [00:32:40] work.
So I think that's my goal, whether now or 20 years down is gonna be for that. And right now I'm realizing that data [00:32:50] is a big deal because funding is a big deal and then making funding decisions. it's complicated and making it simple is important and making it simple oftentimes requires looking [00:33:00] at things that are comparable.
And numbers can be something that people can rely on to make those comparisons
Duncan: Looking back, do you feel like your RN [00:33:10] degree gave you the tools to find a job that you find meaningful?
Brandon: Yes. I would say it's not been easy and there's been a lot that I've had to navigate. I've had to make my [00:33:20] own path in a, in a way, and I'm still gonna have to make my own path. But I think the degree made a huge difference in my opportunities and the skills that I was able to develop [00:33:30] from that role. Like I did learn so much from my inpatient stint. I learned a lot. There's things I regret, but I don't, regret [00:33:40] everything.
Duncan: I think that's one of the key things for these students who are thinking about pre-health Is that any of these degrees isn't one thing, it's not one job.
Even if it trains you for a [00:33:50] particular job, maybe like inpatient RN for example, but there's all these other things you can do with it. Yes. It requires potentially more effort, more [00:34:00] self-starting to do. Yes. But those opportunities exist and it sounds like having a degree, whatever it, is, can help you on that way to finding what you want to do.
Brandon: Help is even maybe not as strong a word as I [00:34:10] was you, that I feel like it's critical 'cause otherwise people aren't even gonna listen to you.
You have to be, in some way, have some authority or legitimacy within these [00:34:20] systems in order for you to make the changes that you think are important or that are important.
Duncan: what would you tell
Brandon: someone from the pre-med program, [00:34:30] at UW who's in the MAPS program.
What's your why? It can be hard to investigate that and a lot of things might arise, but that's gonna help you not just [00:34:40] pursue things because it's gonna give you clarity on why you're doing what you're doing.
And it'll help strengthen your motivation to do what you need to do, to live your best life. And I don't [00:34:50] know what your values are, but I would assume if you're trying to go to medical school, it will be making the world a better place or helping people directly.
And so [00:35:00] it will motivate you to be able to better pursue that value and that goal. So knowing why you're around, like on an existential level what your purpose is in this [00:35:10] life. You don't have to know the answer. But spending time or having a space created for that, I think is essential.
cause then you're never gonna really [00:35:20] stop thinking about it, but it will give you some direction on where you need to do next. And you, there's not really a wrong thing to do,
one things that give you more capacity to, [00:35:30] have a good life. No lie. Money does help.
And so being able to have a career that you are able to have financial stability and support yourself is a big [00:35:40] deal. And something where you don't, or you feel like isn't killing you. Yeah and then you can continue to think about like why, what you want to do with your life.
Duncan: I think [00:35:50] so many of the points that you mentioned, will resonate with so many people. Because I think a lot of what you are struggling with potentially at a younger age, and a lot of people [00:36:00] do, are the big questions, right?
It's the why. And I think you're right. Those questions never go away. And every day that anyone's alive, I think they percolate into your mind.[00:36:10]
Brandon: right? And when you're older and when things come up, honestly, it's better to think about it earlier than later. sometimes habits and like structure can be a [00:36:20] very strong influencing factor.
And sometimes they can kind of mask some of your needs. Because you're used to doing things that a certain way. But when those [00:36:30] break, and they will for life, or because the systems don't work perfectly, you'll need to rely on your why to help you be [00:36:40] resilient. So I think it's important to be thinking about these earlier, but you do also need some support , it can't just be you, it should be in conversation with trusted adults or [00:36:50] peers, even just some people who can hold space for, for this sort of, thought.
Uh, and hopefully you're able to hold this space for other people as well.
Duncan: Well, thank you again for all your time. [00:37:00] What questions do you have for me?
Brandon: I'm just appreciative of like you holding space and asking these questions.
I, I guess what I'm curious about is what you think about, if you were to answer that question yourself, [00:37:10] like what would you tell another young person today who is thinking about going into the medical profession or like health profession. What would you tell them?
What do you feel like is important for them to [00:37:20] know?
Duncan: Well, I think I would even step back. Because I think I was a similar kid to you where I was faced with these big questions and I think maybe my parents exposed me to these big questions, [00:37:30] which triggered kind of existential thoughts.
Mm-hmm. And I would tell that person, like what you said is the why. I think the questions that you're asking are the correct questions. And the [00:37:40] reason they feel overwhelming is because I think they are overwhelming. And I think human society for millennia have been struggling with exactly those questions and that's why it feels that way.[00:37:50]
And I think if you're feeling this way, a lot of other people are, at least the students I have with me, I tell them first of all, if you look at all these super well [00:38:00] successful in quotations, right? People today, they're all in jobs that didn't exist 20 years ago. And I tell them also that there's probably a perfect job for you [00:38:10] that meets all of your needs and all of your goals and everything.
And you've probably never heard about it, and you probably never will. So I think one of the best things you can do is just explore and see [00:38:20] what else is out there. Yeah.
I just didn't have a good sense of what possibilities they were. And then you start talking to people. I
And like you said, the degree is essential as a starting [00:38:30] point to actually do what you wanna do.
Brandon: Yeah.
Duncan: Yeah. So that's what I would tell a younger version of myself. I'm like, the reason you feel overwhelmed by these questions is because they're actually the [00:38:40] questions. And I think you get caught up trying to avoid the real questions.
And I think so much of of work in school focuses so much energy on protecting you from what the actual [00:38:50] question is, which is the why. Like why, like why show up? Why do these things? Why, right? Why is the meaning? I think find reassurance in that.
Brandon: Yeah.
Duncan: [00:39:00] Right. And I'm trying to respect the, the person right in high school that's struggling to say, you're not wrong.
but I think let's take it step by step and find meaning in these small [00:39:10] things. Yes. And I think the question is, what good is this for my career is not really the question, but what is.
You know, what's useful in this task in and of itself, and how can I become [00:39:20] better? Mm-hmm. I think AI is gonna question that too, right? With now with ai, what's the point of writing? What's the point of doing all of these things? And I think the legitimate questions Yeah. [00:39:30] But your ability to think on its own is gonna be important because you're gonna have to answer that question to yourself.
Right. The why. 'cause you're the only one that you're accountable to at the end of the day.
Just [00:39:40] be honest and just say Right.
Brandon: It can be really hard depending on your upbringing.another thing I'd like to say is coming up like this discomfort is really challenging, but I would [00:39:50] encourage folks to consider discomfort as an opportunity. Oh. There's some tension here. It's like like a harmony or like a movie.
The tension is needed to come [00:40:00] to a resolution. You can't have an enjoyable movie without some tension or conflict building up. So it's like, oh, okay, yeah, this is coming up. If it, it doesn't feel that great. It feels [00:40:10] uncomfortable. What is this helping me to like, to see what, like what problem, like what story?
Like what is this addressing? And [00:40:20] then when you come out on the other side, or even if you are in it the whole time, like it's gonna help you get somewhere that's closer, that's aligned with like who you are and what you need and honestly what the [00:40:30] world needs too.
Duncan: I think this is the role of having these interviews with people like you, because I think what happens is when someone shadows you, for example, I think they get a [00:40:40] very sanitized version of what your career is like, how you ended up where you are, right? Mm-hmm. You get to, and it's the same as like when you see someone's life on social media, you get to curate what it [00:40:50] is.
Yeah. So you hide all the, all the challenges, you hide all the mistakes, you hide all of the things that I think actually were probably the most important [00:41:00] in your self formation.
and you create this version of yourself that is not really true. So then I find it not very helpful for when young students come and you know, and [00:41:10] have the typical shadowing experience.
'cause you get a very sanitized version, which I think is devoid of actual the meaning and the challenge of what finding a career is about.
Brandon: [00:41:20] Yeah. Going to shadowing,
I do feel like one thing that was critical in my experience to actually growing from it is the debriefing, like the space created to actually talk about.
So how [00:41:30] was your experience and what did you think? and then also taking time for those messiness to come up. Like [00:41:40] having space for you to share, how was your experience like, oh, actually this one conversation with that patient was really challenging and this is what was challenging [00:41:50] about it.
What did you think? And having that conversation and navigating that. I think that's the learning edge when it comes to shadowing, because otherwise you're not really critically thinking. You're just [00:42:00] observing. But if you don't have a, a container for which to put some of those observations, you're not really gonna retain.
Duncan: I think that's a great point, and I try to do that. But it's interesting that [00:42:10] even I, like you feel vulnerable as the physician in those settings. Mm-hmm. And you say, what do you think? And then, then some of the students will be like, well, it didn't seem like it went that
well. [00:42:20] Mm-hmm. Right. And I think it, it's challenging from the part of the health professional because you need to make yourself vulnerable and then to reassess how you did it.
Yeah. And you're like, [00:42:30] wow. You know, and you have to take accountability. And I think that's very challenging, especially when you're with someone who is so much your junior to realize, you know, what they [00:42:40] said is actually a valid point. Yeah. And I could have done better, but I think that's hard. And I think that's a great point.
Maybe that's something I can talk about with other providers because it is really the [00:42:50] debrief. Seeing, seeing medicine is just the tip of the iceberg, isn't
Brandon: it
really? Because you,
yeah.
Yeah. It, it can be challenging for sure, but I would say [00:43:00] that wouldn't that make, doesn't that make you a better provider when you get feedback?
just 'cause they don't have the medicine knowledge that you have and your experience with that doesn't mean [00:43:10] that their lived experience or other things that they're coming from isn't actually extremely valuable to you as a professional.
Duncan: I, I completely agree. Yeah. [00:43:20] But I think it can be
Brandon: Yeah.
Duncan: think, I think the reason we have all of these formalities and we have all of these systems in place to avoid [00:43:30] exactly those kinds of uncomfortable situations that are actually the learning situations. So I think that's a great point.
Yeah. And I think, I wasn't thinking about it correctly 'cause I do [00:43:40] try, some students listening might correct me, but I do try to talk to people at the end and, and understand how they saw things as
well. Yeah. [00:43:50] But I think you're being, I think you're right on. That's exactly the important thing.
Brandon: Yeah. That's the learning edge, I think.
Duncan: Yeah. But I think the other point too is like you were saying, [00:44:00] well, doesn't that make you a better provider to get this feedback? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And,
And it feels uncomfortable and makes you feel vulnerable. But then I think that's the [00:44:10] point you're getting at is that all of the things that are meaningful in your career or figuring out what you want to do are not easy.
And you don't wanna necessarily wanna do 'em. I mean, they make you [00:44:20] feel naked and exposed and make you potentially feel like you're wrong.
Brandon: Yeah. It's, it's both. It's both. You need, it's, it's [00:44:30] hard.
Uh, it's hard, it's scary. Um, and sometimes it sucks. A Buddhist saying is you need the mud for the flower.
[00:44:40] Like you need the situation to help you, to know, to grow, and all that. So try, it's not, I'm not perfect with this either.
I'm trying my [00:44:50] best to turn towards discomfort as an opportunity for learning. But I, I, I completely agree with you.
Duncan: And then going back to the mentorship that was so meaningful [00:45:00] to you in nursing school, I think it had all those elements, right? It had humility.
Mm-hmm. It
had creating space. It did, it wasn't the most efficient thing that those two mentors did [00:45:10] in terms of asking you what your goals were about getting feedback from you, but ultimately it had a lasting impact.
It did. That you still have a, a connection with [00:45:20] them. So, so I guess the message I would have for the students is trying to find those and trying to be that person as well for other people. Because look [00:45:30] at what a huge impact it has.
Brandon: it did, yeah.
Duncan: Yeah, but it does require extra time. It does require extra vulnerability.
But then I think that's [00:45:40] worth it. 'cause it's,
Brandon: Yeah, I mean, also knowing your capacity. 'cause it also does take extra effort and I think as a nurse in the, inpatient setting, you work with students all the time. I loved [00:45:50] working with students because I was able to create this space and this capacity, that often they don't experience, a lot of people who were working with me would say that like, wow, I've learned [00:46:00] so much.
you've been the best preceptor I've ever had. And I think that's exactly why. It's because I'm involving them with humility. I'm asking them for their [00:46:10] genuine opinion and perspective and valuing that. And then also creating space for them to actually learn versus just doing it on my own.
Um, but it took a [00:46:20] lot outta me. Um, it did
Duncan: Well, you get it back too though.
Brandon: I, I did, I, I, I did. And I think one thing is how can we create [00:46:30] this? How can we facilitate the space for these things to happen? Because ultimately I'd say that this investment would create better providers, better healthcare professionals, and also a better system [00:46:40] where, especially in an academic institution where we're focused on teaching health professionals, like having more learning, just more effective learning.
Duncan: Yeah. Yeah. [00:46:50] Well, and I think the, the goal of these interviews was just to be the first step in that. And I think what we can offer is just an honest take on things.
Right. As, as, as we [00:47:00] perceive it. Yeah. Okay. Well thanks so much.
Brandon: Yeah. Likewise. Yeah.
Duncan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Provider Pulse series on the EthnoMed podcast. [00:47:10] Listening to Brandon Gim, I'm reminded that each person has a unique path to medicine. The journey winds through questions of identity, purpose, and [00:47:20] belonging,
and through moments of doubt that can feel uncomfortable, but are often where real learning begins.
Brandon's story shows that mentorship and meaning come from the same [00:47:30] place, from people who make space for honesty, curiosity, and growth.
For those of you preparing for a career in healthcare, remember that finding your [00:47:40] why isn't a single discovery. It's a practice. Each patient, each challenge, each relationship helps shape it a little more. Thank you, Brandon, for [00:47:50] sharing your insight and your openness.
If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with a colleague or friend and subscribe so you don't miss future episodes where we [00:48:00] explore the hidden stories that shape our medical community.
Be sure to visit our website at ethnomed.org for additional resources. Also, follow us on YouTube and Instagram [00:48:10] at EthnoMedUW and on LinkedIn. Do you have comments or suggestions about future guests? We would love to hear from you at [00:48:20] EthnoMeduw@uw.edu. Thank you and see you at our next episode.